*Attendees*
Lynn McRae, Stanford U. (chair)
Dave Donnelly, Stanford U.
Blair Christensen, U. Chicago
Tom Barton, U. Chicago
Brendan Bellina, USC
R.L. “Bob“ Morgan, U. Washington
Nate Klingenstein, Internet2
Steve Olshansky, Internet2
Jessica Bibbee, Internet2 (scribe)
New *Action Items*
{Dave and Blair] will talk offline about working with Hibernate and resolving current issues.
[AI] {Lynn} volunteered to relocate items to the I2MI-Common, such as loading tools, etc.
Carry Over *Action Items*
[AI] {Dave} will update the requirements text to reflect the upgrade to Java 1.5. (18-Aug-06)
[AI] {Tom} will email the grouper- and signet-user mailing lists to probe for issues related to versioning changes. (18-Aug-06)
[AI] {Tom} will email the list with potential contacts at Macquarie University. (18-Aug-06)
[AI] {Lynn} will request use cases and other agenda topics for the CAMP program. (21-Jul-06)
[AI] Contact {Lynn} if you identify additional functional requirements for your local project. (28-Apr)
[AI] {Bob} will send .htaccess local syntax to the group via the list.
[AI] {Group} will develop use cases for Signet.
[AI] {Minh} will develop a list of requirements for how Signet will interface with LDAP and Grouper.
[AI] {Lynn} will write up a person and function summary to express the relationship of privileges to roles and to determine what gets expressed in the eduPerson entitlement space.
*Agenda*
1. Events reminders: November Signet/Grouper CAMP; December I2 Members meeting.
2. Hibernate. Dave would like a chance to vent on Hibernate. From my perspective it seems to have been an ongoing source of, um, challenges and I have trouble remembering or seeing the benefits. We can either remind ourselves why hibernate is a good idea or consider whether it should remain in the picture for long.
3. Some odds and ends on the Subject API
- Moving Subject to i2mi-common
- Subject API, multi-valued attributes and value order
4. Next round on rules (conditions and prerequisites) implementation. An updated write-up is forthcoming.
5. Wiki and Web
*Discussion*
There are two upcoming events of interest to the Signet Working Group:
CAMP: Building a Distributed Access Management Infrastructure, November 7-9, Denver.
While the focus is not specifically Signet/Grouper, they will be a part of the discussion. Additionally there will be two pre-conference seminars, one each for a technology and management track. There will be use cases and discussions of what others have done in this area. More details are available at the program site: <http://www.educause.edu/content.asp?SECTION_ID=226>.
Fall Internet2 Member Meeting, December 4-7, Chicago.
There will be a combined Signet/Grouper BoF on Monday, along with a meeting for Early Adopters. More information will soon be available at <http://events.internet2.edu/2006/fall-mm/>.
The use of Hibernate is in question, given its functionality and usability. {Dave} emailed the list (cf. 29-Sep) with several challenges of using Hibernate. The Group discussed several of these advantages and challenges. One challenge that {Dave} reported is that Hibernate lacks details regarding problems, and this necessitates time to step through the code to find out the exact issues. Also, collections returned from Hibernate are not synched for multi-threaded applications, which would surface as a problem, should Signet choose to go that route. When you try to update a record, Hibernate perceives it as new and tries to insert it. {Dave} feels there are many unknowns with using Hibernate.
{Blair} has also seen rough times with Hibernate, though he said many of the changes needed to get Hibernate working were actually for the better of the project itself. One advantage of using Hibernate is that it is capable of compiling a sequence when the underlying database is not able, though it is a potential problem in that it will try no matter what.
Neither Signet nor Grouper are using the current release of Hibernate, v3.1, though this might bring resolution to some of the current issues. Dave anticipates Signet moving to the current version as progress allows. Lynn advised that the Group continue to listen to concerns regarding the use of Hibernate. [AI] {Dave and Blair] will talk offline about working with Hibernate and resolving current issues.
Dave suggested the use of DAO (Data Access Object), which he has successfully used in other projects. While it is seemingly more tedious, it is something that is developed locally, tied to your database. The DAO interface layer is straightforward and easy to use. The Group decided that using DAO would bring many benefits to Signet work. {Blair} also mentioned that DAO would make a good addition to Grouper.
The larger question is what is suitable for an Open Source environment, and how much of that work is Signet willing to take on. {Minh} reminded the Group that it would be a lot of work for Signet to work with different campuses if Signet wrote its own persistence mechanism. This is one reason {Blair} likes to use Hibernate. {Lynn} suggested doing a comparison to see how Hibernate generates Signet Schemas. Hibernate may be a help in forming schemas as more sites adopt Signet or Grouper.
{Blair} has created an I2MI-Common with the intent to house the Subject API work, including documentation and packaging <http://viewvc.internet2.edu/viewvc.py/i2mi-common/?root=I2MI>. {Jessica} has created an I2MI-Common wiki space, also for housing items to be shared <https://wiki.internet2.edu/confluence/display/i2miCommon/Home>. {Bob} suggested having the same demo population for use in Signet, Grouper, etc. [AI] {Lynn} volunteered to relocate items to the I2MI-Common, such as loading tools, etc.
The Group also discussed the getAttribute in the Subject API. In particular, there is interest in the Subject API acting as a transparent source, whereby it would return values in the order requested. For example, it would switch the return from a set to an array. Is the Subject API just a data access API, or is it more enriched?
{Lynn} briefly announced an update on rules, with the final fleshing of some details to soon be finished and released. There will be a separate class outside of Signet/Grouper for the rules engine.
The next Signet WG call will be on Friday, October 13, 2006 at 11am EDT.